What data is important to Māori today?
Is some data regarded as tapu (restricted)?
To what extent can tikanga Māori (customs) help guide the way data is shared?
This and many other questions are tackled in two separate video discussions in which Stats NZ brings together panellists who examine and debate Māori perspectives about the way data is collected, shared, and used.
View the 30-second trailer or the full discussion in English.
Transcripts of the videos are available.
Word versions of the transcripts are available by emailing datalead@stats.govt.nz.
Video, 30:59 min
See video in He taonga te raraunga? Is data taonga? – te Reo Māori panel discussion
Published 6 November 2018
Visual: Rhonda Paku, Stats NZ Kaihautu, speaking to camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae.
Audio (Rhonda): Rārangi maunga tū te ao, tū te pō. Rārangi tāngata, ka mate, ka mate noa. Rārangi raraunga, ka ao, ka ao ka awatea, kia ora mai kōutou katoa.
Onscreen text: Rhonda Paku, Stats NZ Kaihautu
Audio (Rhonda): E hoa mā, kei te mōhio kē tātou he ao hangarau tēnei. Hāngai pū ana ki tērā, ko te ao raranga. I tēnei wā kua kohia ētahi mātanga, ētahi kaikōrero, hei whakamārama atu i ō rātou whakaaro, e pā ana ki te ao raraunga me ngā tikanga Māori. Nā reira taringa areare mai nā. Ko Rhonda Paku ahau mō Tatauranga Aotearoa.
Visual: White background with Stats NZ logo, followed by white background with black, orange and grey wai tohu.
Onscreen text: he taonga te raraunga? is data taonga?
Visual: closeup of Te Arahi Maipi, facing the camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae, with a Stats NZ banner in the background.
Onscreen text: Te Arahi Maipi, Waikato-Tainui
Audio (Te Arahi): He mihi ki te rangi. He mihi ki te whenua. He mihi ki tēnei whare kōrero, ki tēnei whare raraunga e whakamahana i a tātou kia wātea tō tātou wetewete, arohaehae i tēnei kaupapa, he taonga te raraunga. Tēnā koutou katoa. Ko Te Arahi Maipi tēnei e mihi atu ana ki a koutou, anā, tēnā hoki koutou kua piri mai ki te whārangi ipurangi o Statistics NZ mā runga Pukamata, nā reira, kia kaha tonu te whaiwhai, nā reira ko te whārangi ipurangi hoki, ko stats.govt.nz.
Visual: Three panellists in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae, from left to right, Rukuwai Tipene-Allen, Te Aorere Pēwhairangi, Jade Maipi, and Te Arahi. From here on, the visuals record the discussion and focus moves from closeups of individual speakers to shots of the whole panel.
Audio (Te Arahi): Ko tēnei kaupapa ka wetewetehia e tēnei rārangi kaikōrero. E hāngai te nuinga ki te ao pāpāho, engari e rukuhia ana te rerekētanga o te ao Pākehā, te ao Māori, ana ko te mea o waenganui ko te raraunga. Nā reira kia tūtaki tātou ki tēnei hunga nā, Rukuwai Allen, tēnā rawa atu koe.
Onscreen text: Rukuwai Tipene-Allen, Ngāpuhi, Ngāi Te Rangi
Audio (Rukuwai): Tēnā koe, ngā mihi nui.
Onscreen text: Te Aorere Pēwhairangi, Ngāti Porou
Audio (Te Arahi): Ngā mihi. Ki Te Aorere Pēwhairangi ngā mihi nui ki a koe brother.
Audio (Te Aorere): Kia ora bro.
Onscreen text: Jade Maipi, Ngāpuhi, Pare Hauraki
Audio (Te Arahi): Anā ko Jade Maipi ko taku makau tērā.
Audio (Te Arahi): Anā, ko koutou tokotoru e whai pānga ana ki tēnei mahi raraunga, ipurangi me ērā tū momo āhua katoa. Whakamārama mai ki te iwi ō mahi ia rā ia rā, i roto i tēnei ao.
Audio (Rukuwai): Ia rā, Matapaki, ia rā ia rā ka Paeāhua, ia rā ka Pukamata, ia rā ka Instagram, ka tīhau, ka aha atu, ka LinkedIn, ngā momo katoa o ngā pae paepori, me te mea nei he pai, he pā, he pā katoa ērā mea. Ka mutu ka hono atu ki ngā mea. Ka whakamahi i te Herora, i ngā Newshubs, i ērā momo mea katoa kia whai wāhi te mōhio, ka mutu, kia pai taku whakahoahoa atu i ērā mea, i runga i ngā pae pāpori, nā reira he nui ngā mahi, ia rā, tōna rua tekau hāora i te rua tekau mā whā hāora, e mahi ana i ērā mea.
Laughter
Audio (Te Arahi): A koe, Te Aorere?
Audio (Te Aorere): Koinei te hangarau i tēnei wā. Ka whakaaro ake, ki ngā kōrero a Āpirana Ngata, “ko ō ringa ki ngā rākau a te Pākehā, hei ara mō tō tinana”, nā e ora nei mātou i ēnei rākau a te Pākehā. Inā rā, nā te toro a te Māori ki ngā rākau a te Pākehā kua hua mai ko ngā kōhanga reo, ko ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori, ko ngā wharekura, ko ā tātou mahi, ko tō tātou whare mahi, ko Whakaata Māori, ngā reo irirangi Māori, me ēnei hangarau hou kei te whanake tonu mai, ko Atapaki, ko Tīhau, ko Paeāhua, ko Pukamata, nā reira koinei te ao e noho nei tātou, i tēnei tau rua mano 2018. Koinei ā mātou mahi, koinei tā mātou toro, ki ēnei rākau a te Pākehā, engari kei wareware hoki i a tātou, te toenga o tā Āpirana i whakahau ai, ko tō wairua ki ngā taonga a ō tīpuna Māori. Na, kua rite tonu tā tātou ruku hei painga mō ēnei taonga, inā rā, ko ēnei kaupapa nei, ko ēnei rautaki nei he rautaki whakarauora i te reo Māori me ā tātou tikanga Māori.
Audio (Te Arahi): Jade, i runga i tō mōhio pai ki a Atapaki me ērā momo mea, engari ko tāu mahi, he mea māu ake, he mea whakapārekareka, he mea mahi rānei, tō whakarāweke i ēnei momo rauemi?
Audio (Jade): Tuatahi, kei te ao pāpāho au e mahi ana, Ka rua he tuku i te reo i ngā kaupapa Māori kia horapa ki te motu. Tētahi taha ōku, te taha o tōku māmā, kāore tōku whānau e mōhio ki te kōrero Māori, e noho manene ana ki roto o Tāmaki, nō reira ko au te kaikōrero o tēnā taha o te whānau Māori, ki te whakapuaki i ngā whakaaro Māori, i te reo Māori, ki runga i ēnei momo taumata, e rongo ai, e kite ai kia Māori ai, kia whakawhenua i ērā whakaaro ki waenganui i ēnei hunga reo-kore. Tuatoru he māmā ahau, nō reira, ko tāku he titiro ki aku tamariki, me pēhea e noho haumaru ai rātou ki runga i te pae pāpori, ki runga i a Pukamata me ērā tū momo mea. Kei te ao pakihi ahau e mahi ana, nō reira ko taku mahi he whakawhenua i te whakaaro Māori ki ēnā taumata. I te nui o te wā ko ētahi o ōku hoamahi ko au te Māori tūtaki kua tūtaki i a rātou nō reira, koirā tāku, he whakawhenua i tēnei tirohanga, i ēnei whakaaro, i tēnei reo.
Audio (Te Arahi): Ka pai. Kei a koutou anō te mana whakahaere i runga i a Pukamata, tukuna mai ō koutou whakaaro, mō ngā kaupapa ka horaina e tēnei hōtaka. Na, ko te ngako o tēnei hōtaka ā-ipurangi, He taonga te Raraunga, nō reira, kia piri mai anō ki ngā kōrero ka tukuna i runga i a Pukamata, me ērā mea, ki ō whakaaro he taonga ēnā?
Audio (Rukuwai): Āe, he tika. I reira ngā whārangi o ngā marae. Arā ko tōku nei marae tērā, kua whakarapa atu i tētahi whārangi, kei reira ko ngā meneti o ngā hui, kei reira ngā kōrero whakapapa, i ētahi wā, i reira ko ngā kōrero mō te hītoria o te rohe. Nā reira ērā mea katoa ka noho tapu ki ahau, i runga i taku mōhio ko ēnā mea ngā tino taonga tuku iho. Hāunga atu ngā maunga, ngā whenua, ko ngā whakapapa, me ngā kōrero pērā, ko ngā taonga ka waiho mai mā ā tātou tamariki, koinā tētahi rautaki i whāia e te marae, kia noho tonu ērā mea hei taonga ki roto i ngā whakareanga. Nā reira ko ērā mea katoa he taonga, tae noa atu ki ērā ko ngā whakaahua, o ngā hōia, i haere ki tāwāhi, kua hinga atu iāianei, he taonga tonu ērā. He taonga tonu ngā mea, ngā kohinga kōrero, i roto i ngā reo irirangi, kua whakamahia ngā kaikaranga, ngā kōrero hītoria, engari ināianei kua kitea i runga i a Pukamata, e ora ana rātou i reira, engari kei hea pea te wāhi ki a rātou kia noho wehe tonu te ao mate i te ao ora. Ka mutu kei hea tō tātou pātū roimata e kī ai, he taonga tēnei, nō te ao tahito ēnei, nō te hunga mate ēnei. Arā, kei hea te ara kia hoki mai tātou ki te whai ao, ki te ao mārama. Nā reira koirā pea ko ngā whakaaro i ahau.
Audio (Te Arahi): E tika ana tēnā, i te ao kikokiko, i te aotūroa nei, he ao tā te mate, he ao tā te ora, he māmā anō te wehewehe i ēnā, e tika ana kia noho wehe, engari nā te ipurangi, he raru tēnā?
Audio (Jade): Ki au āe, he raru nui nei, te mate o te Pukamata, ka riro te hunga kūware hei ārahi i te nuinga o ngā whakareanga, o te hunga rangatahi. Ka kite ana i ngā whakaahua o ngā toka ki roto i ngā urupā, ka wehi nei au, wehi nui nei, ki runga i tērā āhuatanga o te...me waiho tērā ki te hunga mate. Mēnā e hiahia ana koe ki te whakairi i tētahi whakaahua o tō nani, o tō karanipā rānei, me whakairi, engari i roto i tōna ora, tētahi whakaahua e iri mai ana i roto i tō whare, engari anō ki te urupā. Ko au noa iho tērā. Nā reira, nāwai rā ka whakaaro, te hunga, oh no, he pai tēnā mahi, i te mea i kitea e horapa nuitia ana ki roto o Pukamata. He pai. Nō reira kei konā ahau e tohutohu ana e ārahi ana i aku tamariki, kia kaua e pērā engari koirā noa iho taku whakaaro. Me noho wehe ēnā, e mau ai ngā tikanga a ō tātou tūpuna e ora ai tātou.
Audio (Te Arahi): Te Aorere. He aha ō whakaaro?
Audio (Te Aorere): Āe, ki taku titiro e kōrero nei tātou mō te tapu me te noa. Ki ōku whakaaro me mōhio tātou ki tēnei mea te tapu. Inā rā te whakataukī a te Pākehā, ka whakahāngaitia ki tēnei mea te tapu, ki te tikanga, ‘cultures can be made, unmade, and remade,’ hei taupā ki ngā kōrero a Jade, ko ā tātou tikanga, ko tēnei mea te tapu, kei te āhua anō o te horopaki, e tapu ai tētahi mea. Ka tīkina rā te tauira o te kō, te spade, ka ui mai ki au ‘He tapu rānei te spade, ko taku urupare ki tērā, kei te āhua o te mahi o tērā kō. Mehemea e kari ana tērā kō i te māra, mehemea e keri ana tērā kō i te hāngī, he noa tērā kō, engari mehemea e kari ana tērā kō i te poka..kia tāpuketia ai, kia nehua ai he tūpāpaku, kua tapu tērā kō, nō reira me mōhio tātou, ki ā tātou tikanga, ki tērā mea, ki te tapu, ki te noa, e tika ai tā tātou whakaputa i ēnei kōrero, i ēnei āhuatanga, nō reira he whakatūpato noa ki a tātou, hei tā Jade, ākene ko te kūware i ētahi wā e ārahi ana i ā tātou kōrero, ko te iti o te mōhio ki ā tātou tikanga. Ina rā te kōrero a Tāmati Kruger, ‘ko ā tātou tikanga te whakatinanatanga o ō tātou whakaaro, o ō tātou whakapono.’ Nō reira me mōhio tātou ki ō tātou whakaaro, ki ō tātou whakapono, e tika ai ā tātou mahi.
Audio (Te Arahi): Hōhonu ēnā kaupapa, te whakapapa, tangihanga, mate me ēnā mea, engari he aha ngā tū momo mea o ia rā, o ia rā, ka whakapāhotia ka noho tapu ki a koe, ko tō mata, ko tō aha, ka puritia, ka kore e tukuna, ā, he aha ngā mea pai tonu, tukuna atu.
Audio (Rukuwai): Ia te wā ka tuku atu au i tētahi whakaahua, ko taku moko kauae i runga i te ipurangi, i ahau e whakaaro ana he pai tonu tērā ki waenganui i ōku hoa, tōku whānau, i te mea koia ōku hoa i runga i te pukamata, nā reira he pai tonu tērā ki ahau, kua mōhio kē rātou ki ahau. Engari ki te whakaaro ake, ko taku moko kauae, hei mea kohi mā tētahi atu, kia whakamahi i tētahi atu wāhi, i runga i tētahi atu kaupapa, e kore pea ahau e whakaae ki taua kaupapa, i reira ahau e raru ana. Ehara i te mea e mōhio ana ahau, ko taku mata ko ahau ko tōku whānau, āe, nā reira pea ahau āe, e pai ana te whakarapa atu i tēnei engari, he mōhioranga tērā pea ka hē ahau i tēnei tuku.
Audio (Jade): Ki te tōia mai te tauira a Te Aorere mō te horopaki o te whakamahinga o tētahi mea, he tauira tino pai tērā, ki te titiro tātou ki ngā mea ka tuku noa ki Pukamata, ko tētahi kaupapa i puea ake, ko Bla bla bla ko tōku ingoa, ko da da da ōku matua, ko da da da ōku pāpā, karanipāpā, ā,ko Ngāti bla bla bla, he heke nō da da da, well, he wehi nui ki tēnā i te mea kei te tuku koe i tō whakapapa. Engari ki te mea ake ‘Oo anei ahau, i haere ahau ki Bali mō te wiki, he pai noa iho tērā. Engari ko tēnei tauira, i ētahi wā, he pai te tuku ētahi whakaahua, ētahi kōrero, engari ko ētahi me noho, me tiaki koe, ki a au nei…
Audio (Te Arahi): Ko tō tauira, he tuku atu i tō whakapapa. He aha te rerekētanga o te tuku atu i tērā mā runga ipurangi i tā te tuku i roto i tēnei whare, kotahi rau pea ngā tāngata. Kāore i te mea kei te mōhio koe ki ia tangata, ki ia tangata, engari he aha te rerekētanga o te tuku mā konā, ki tēnei nā.
Audio (Jade): Ka rongo koe i te whakapapa i roto i te whare nui, i runga i te marae ātea ka rongo koe, ka kore koe e tiki atu i tēnā, ka huri ki tētahi atu āhuatanga, me te whakatakoto i te whakapapa a tētahi atu, engari i ēnei rā nei kua kite tāua i roto i tō tāua whānau, e hiahia ana te whānau ki te whakatū papakāinga i runga i te whenua Māori. Kua puea ake ki roto i ngā Kōti tētahi wahine nō Rotorua e mea ana, nōku tēnei whenua, anei tāku whakapapa. Nāna tonu i tiki atu i runga i te ipurangi, nāwai rā kua riro i a ia, ētahi wāhanga o te whenua. Na, kāore au e whakaae ki te tuku whakapapa, nā tērā mahi, i te mea ko te whenua Māori, te kaupapa nui, te take nui. Ki te ngaro i a tātou ō tātou whenua kei hea te tūāpapa hei tū tātou, e tū pakari ai tātou, nā reira, kāore au e whakaae kia tuku i te whakapapa, tērā momo raraunga ki runga i ngā taumata, ngā pae pāpori.
Audio (Te Arahi): Te Aorere, i tupu ake ai koe, Māori ake nei. Ko tō tirohanga ki ngā mea katoa he Māori. Ko te nuinga o tātou kāore e pērā. Engari he tere tonu te kōrero mā runga ipurangi, mō ngā take Māori. Mēnā he tohutohu, he kupu akiaki mō te hunga kāore i pērā rawa te hōhonu o tō rātou mātauranga Māori, ērā tū momo āhuatanga, he aha ngā mea e kite ana koe i runga ipurangi me tō hēmanawa ki ēnā momo mahi?
Audio (Te Aorere): He pātai pai tērā. He pātai taumaha tērā, inā rā, ko wai rā ahau te kī atu, kei te tika tāna mahi, kei te hē tāna mahi. Heoi anō tāku, mā te mōhio pea, ka tōwaitia tāku e kī ai, mā te mōhio ki ā tātou tikanga e haumaru ai tā tātou noho i tēnei ao, i te mea koirā te mahi a ā tātou tikanga, he whakahaumaru i te noho a te Māori..Na, ko te mate pea i tēnei tau rua mano tekau mā waru mano, kua noho mōkai tātou ki ā tātou tikanga nā te mea kāore tātou i te mōhio ki ā tātou tikanga. Mehemea kei te mōhio tātou ki ā tātou tikanga, kua noho mōkai ā tātou tikanga ki a tātou, me te aha, mā tērā e noho haumaru ai tātou i tēnei ao, e Māori ai tātou i tēnei ao, e tika ai hoki ā tātou mahi ki tā ngā kōrero i kōrerotia ai, i whakahekea mai e ō tātou tīpuna ki a tātou. Inā rā te kōrero a Te Rangihīroa, i te tau 1930, ka kī ia, “Here again the age-old story of a conservative culture, incapable of adaptation stands in the way of practical solution.” Na, koinei tētahi reta, tētahi kōrero i tuhia ai e Te Rangihīroa ki tētahi reta ki a Tā Āpirana Ngata. Koinei ngā kōrero i kōrerohia ki a rāua i te tau 1930, kua tata pahure te kotahi rau tau, e kōrero tonu nei tātou mō tēnei āhua i kōrerotia ai e rāua, me te aha, ko te kōrero i kī ai, “Here again the age-old story”, nā reira, i te wā i a rāua, kua tawhito kē aua kōrero. Nō reira ko tāku e kī nei me mōhio tātou ki ā tātou tikanga, me mōhio tātou ki tō tātou hītori, inā rā, kua whakaaro kē a Āpirana Ngata, kua whakaaro kē a Te Rangihīroa, kua whakaaro kē ō tātou tīpuna mō ēnei āhuatanga e kōrerotia nei e tātou i tēnei rangi tonu. Nō reira ko tāku mā te whirinaki atu ki ā tātou kōrero, ki ā tātou tikanga, ki ō tātou whakapono Māori. Na ko taku whakautu poto ki tō pātai, hei whakakōpani i tāku, me ako, me ako koe i te tikanga, me ako koe i te reo Māori. Ehara i te oma kōkiri, he omanga roa kē.
Audio (Te Arahi): Rukuwai, ā muri atu i tēnei e hoki ana koe ki te kāinga ki tō wānanga. He maha ngā wānanga, wānanga reo, wānanga karanga, wānanga rongoā Māori. Kua tae te wā kia tū ētahi momo wānanga mō te Māori. Kotahi miriona pea tātou horapa katoa i te ao. 99.9 paihēneti kei runga i te ipurangi. Kua tae kia wānanga i tēnei take, mō ngā tikanga Māori i runga i te ipurangi?
Audio (Rukuwai): Oo, āe, koinei te ao e noho nei tātou, ka mutu, me whai tātou i tētahi wāhi e ora tonu ai tātou ā-Māori i roto i tēnei ao hou e kainamu mai nei. Nā reira pea ko tētahi wāhanga, ka mutu e tika ana ngā kōrero a Te Aorere, ko ēnei āhuaranga…kua roa tātou…he ao hurihuri tēnei, nā reira, ehara i te mea me mate te Māori, me mate te whakaaro Māori kia ora ai tātou i roto i tērā ao, ko te mea kē, kei hea tātou, kei hea te huarahi e noho tahi ai, ka mutu, e noho mātāmua tonu te whakaaro Māori i roto i ērā āhuaranga. Mōku ake ko te wānanga i ngā tikanga kia ora tonu te Māori i runga i ngā mea ipurangi, he mea nui, he mea nui. Engari ko tētahi āhuaranga anō pea, kua kitea e tātou, kua huri tātou ki te ‘marae in the sky’ hei wāhi whakaako i ngā tikanga, i te reo. Pai noa tēnā, ētahi o tātou he tino nui ngā mahi, nā reira, kua pokea e te mahi, nē. Ka mutu ko tāku, he wāhi ki te ipurangi, engari e kore e tua atu i te rongo i te wairua Māori, e kore e tua atu i te rekereke o ōu ake kaumātua kuia. Nā reira i reira ko te ipurangi, engari kia kaua tātou e waiho te ipurangi kia noho hei mātāmua i ā tātou tikanga.
Audio (Te Arahi): Ka pai. Ko tētahi kaupapa nunui ehara i te mea he Māori anake, Māori, Pākehā, te ao katoa, ko te kohikohi i ō raraunga mō ngā mahi katoa, ko te nuinga o ērā ko Google, Ko Facebook, ko aha rānei, ko te kāwanatanga me ēnā mea, ahakoa te aha, mahi koe i tētahi momo mahi ahakoa te whārangi ipurangi, kua kohia tēnā raraunga. He āwangawanga āu, he raru āu mō tēnā tū āhuatanga, kāre kau ki a koe?
Audio (Jade): I te nui o a te wā, āe, i te mea he Māori au. Ko te wā ka whakamahia ngā raraunga, e mea ana, oo, he pōhara, e taka ana ki te hē, kāore e pai tō hauora, ka mea, nā reira kāore au e tino rata ki ngā raraunga i runga i tēnā whakamahinga o te raraunga. Atu i tēnā, e kite ana au i roto i ngā wānanga rongoā Māori, i tētahi tira e whakapau kaha ana ki te kohikohi raraunga, e mana ai te titiro a Te Manatū Hauora, e kite ai rātou, ā, he huarahi hauora anō kei Aotearoa nei, ko te rongoā Māori. Koirā tētahi tauira pai kua kite nei au. I te mea i te nui o te wā, kāore e tino kite i te taha waiaro o te tangata, i te taha wairua o te tangata, ka kore e kitea tēnā i roto i ngā raraunga, anei tētahi kaupapa Māori ake nei, e mea ana he ara oranga anō kei reira mō tō tātou iwi. Engari ko tā te Pākehā e mea ana me kohi ēnei raraunga e mana ai tēnei āhuatanga.
Audio (Te Arahi): I tae mai nei koe ki tēnei wānanga, nā te aha? Nā te aha koe i ārahi ki konei?
Audio (Te Aorere): I tae mai ai au ki te pupuri i te whakaaro Māori, kia puta ai te reo Māori, ā tātou kōrero Māori, ā tātou tikanga Māori anō hoki, i ngā hangarau a te Pākehā. Inā rā, ka whakaaro ake ki te kōrero rā a Ahorangi Linda Smith, ko tāna, ka pari mai te tai āniwhaniwha o manene ki Aotearoa, ka tae mai ko ētahi taputapu e rua, ko ēnei taputapu, he pene, he pepa. Na, ko tāna kōrero “Within 30 years the Māori people were completely literate”. Na he nui ngā tāngata i kī, kaua e pēnei, kaua e toro atu ki tēnā, engari ko ētahi tohunga o tērā wā, ko Te Mātorohanga mā, ko te Kōro, ko Mohi Tūrei i āta tuhituhi i ngā kōrero a te Māori, i tērā wā me te aha, kua noho ērā kōrero hei rauemi mō tātou ngā whakatupuranga e pai ai tā tātou hoki atu ki ērā kōrero hei ārahi i a tātou. Na i tae mai au i te rangi nei, inā rā, ko te pene me te pepa, o te rangi nei ko te ipapa e puritia nei i tō ringa. Ko ngā kāmera, ko ngā iwaea kei taku ringa, me te aha, koinei te pene me te pepa o te tau 2018. I tae mai ai au kia puritia ēnei kōrero a Te Aorere Pēwhairangi mō aku uri whakatupu, mo aku mokopuna, mō te 100 tau, 200 tau, e 300 tau, e aha atu rānei kei te aroaro, kia puritia ai ā tātou kōrero kia puta ai ētahi whakaaro o te Māori i tēnei tari kāwanatanga.
Audio (Te Arahi): E ai ki tēnei tari Kāwanatanga he maha tonu ā rātou kohikohi raraunga, me te manako he painga mō te tohatoha pūtea, mō te whakataurite i ngā ture hou, hei painga mō te whenua katoa. Mēnā e whakaae ana koe, mēnā kāore kau rānei, he aha ngā mea e hiahia ana koe i roto i ēnā kohinga, hei painga, hei hua mō tātou i roto i ā rātou mahi?
Audio (Rukuwai): Kua roa te Māori e putu ana i roto i ngā tataranga, kua roa te wā. Kāore anō ahau kia tino kite i ngā hua o ēnei…oo me whaiwhai i ngā raraunga kia pai tā tātou utu i tēnā, kia pai ake te Māori i tērā wāhi. E hia nei ngā tau kua putu te Māori, engari kāore anō kia tino whai hua. E putu tonu ana. Na reira, mēnā ko tērā te whai a te Kāwanatanga, me pērā hoki te utu i ngā nama, na, kua kite tātou, e hia nei ngā wā kua kite tātou, ko te Māori e pōhara ana, e tika tonu ana ngā kōrero, e tika ana Jade, he rawakore, kāinga-kore, mātauranga-kore, enei āhuaranga katoa. Anā reira kei hea te pūtea e kīa nei koutou anā, me whakakī tēnei census, e kī nei ana, me pēnei, me pēnā, me pērā, ā, mā mātou e utu i tērā. Koinā taku hiahia, kaua e kohi noa iho i aku nama, kaua e whakatōpū mai i ahau kia noho au i roto i tērā kete Māori. Kei konei ahau e noho Māori nei, āe, ki tō tirohanga he pōhara, he rawakore, he aha, he aha, engari kāore anō koutou kia whakakī i taua kete ki ngā rawa ki ngā rauemi e tika ana. Ka mutu e tika tonu ana ngā kōrero a Jade. Kotahi anō te pātū o taua whare, kāore ngā tatauranga i te aro ki te taha wairua, ki te taha waiaro ki ērā taha, nā reira, pēhea te Māori e ora, arā, me whai whakaaro ki ērā Māori. Ka mutu atu te whakatōpū i te Māori kia noho pōhara tātou katoa, rawakore, mātauranga-kore tātou katoa.
Audio (Te Arahi): Ka whai pānga pea te kohi ā-iwi i ēnā raraunga hei āwhina i a tātou?
Laughter
Audio (Jade): Te take i pērā ai taku whakautu i te mea ko te moni te kaupapa nui ki ngā tāngata katoa.
Audio (Te Arahi): Ahakoa Māori, Pākehā..
Audio (Jade): Māori Pākeha, iwi, rūnanga. Ka kite ana i ngā raraunga kei raro tātou..pea.. Anei he tauira. 70% o Te Tai Tokerau e noho ana ki Tāmakimakaurau, 50% o rātou e mate ana ki te mate pukupuku. Nāwai rā, kua tiki atu tērā iwi i ērā tatauranga, ka mea atu ki Te Manatū Hauora, waiho mā mātou hei whakaora, hei whakatū i ētahi wānanga, i ētahi tākuta e ora ai tō tātou iwi. Engari waiho mā mātou tērā kōkiri. Nā reira e pātai ana mō te moni kia riro mai tērā moni ki tētahi kāhui, hei whakaora i te iwi. Pai tēnā whakaaro i te tuatahi, heoi, ka tino ora ai te iwi o tēnā kaupapa, i tērā kāhui tāngata? Nō reira i ētahi wā ka noho.. kei te titiro tītaha au ki ētahi o ēnā tāngata, mēnā ko rātou te tangata tika hei kōkiri i tēnā kaupapa.
Audio (Te Arahi): Te pai hoki o te tokotoru nei i te mea ka kite au mā runga ipurangi nei mehemea ka mea mai a Pāpā kua mana, ko koutou e whakahē ana i runga ..ka titiro au mā runga ipurangi nei mehemea e whakaae ana ki tētahi kaupapa kua mana. Engari hei whakarāpopoto, hei whakakōpani i ā tātou kōrero, he rawe te tuku i ā koutou kōrero, nā reira, he rawe anō hoki ki a koutou ana, ko te manako hoki mā koutou e tuku ō koutou whakaaro, ā muri mai i tēnei wānanga, kāore e kore, ka puta atu i te whare, ka whakamahi i te waea hiko. I roto i ēnei kōrero, ka rerekē tō mahi? Ka aha rānei, mā runga ipurangi, mā runga Tīhau, mā rungai te aha rānei, kua tū tino toka tērā i roto i ngā kōrero kua whakawhāriki i te rangi nei?
Audio (Rukuwai): Āe, kei te hoki ahau ki te kāinga ki te kōrero tikanga, nā reira, koinā pea tētahi o ngā wānanga ka whakahaerea i reira. He aha ā tātou tikanga, mō te taha ki ngā raraunga. I konei te tīmatanga o te wānanga pea. Āe, koinā tāku ā muri ake nei.
Audio (Te Aorere): He aha anō te pātai?
Audio (Te Arahi):I te wā e puta atu koe ka tae ki tō īpapa i tō waea rānei ka rerekē tō tū i runga i ngā kōrero kua rangona, kua whārikihia, kua toka?
Audio (Te Aorere): Kua tino toka i tēnei wā, engari āpōpō, ākene kua rerekē anō.
Audio (Te Arahi): Koira tēnā ao!
Audio (Te Aorere): Āe, he tika. Ka tiki au i te kōrero a Mason Durie e kī nei “Tikanga is a comment on processes and practices as much as it is on fixed belief.” Nā reira kua ‘fixed’ aku “beliefs” i tēnei wā, engari ākene mehemea he ‘practical solution’ āpōpō, kua rerekē pea āku mahi.
Audio (Rukuwai): Whakapā mai ki ahau kia whakamōhio atu ki te marae.
Audio (Te Arahi): Tukuna mai mā Pukamata!
Audio (Jade): Huri te ao, huri te ao, ko te mahi a te Māori he rapa atu ki te huringa o te ao. Kua kore tātou e noho toka. Koinā te tauira pai a Te Aorere e pā ana ki a Āpirana Ngata, “Ko tō ringa ki te rākau a te Pākehā, heoi, ko ngā tikanga a tō iwi, o te iwi Māori, me mau tonu. Nō reira ki a au nei hei whakarāpopoto i ngā kōrero i te rā nei, kua pērā tonu ōku whakaaro. Āe, me pērā taku.. me kōkiri, me whanake au, ki te ao e hurihuri nei, heoi, me mau tonu tātou ki ngā tino tikanga, ki te reo, e noho āhuru ai tō tātou Māoritanga, ā tātou tamariki me ā tātou whakatupuranga.
Audio (Te Arahi): Jade, Te Aorere, Rukuwai, tēnā koutou i whakarangatira i tēnei kaupapa. Anō ki a koutou, piri mai ki stats.govt.nz, anā, piri mai anō ki te whārangi pukamata statistics.nz, ko te ia o tēnei kōrero, kua whakarongona e ahau, kia mau ki tō Māoritanga ahakoa te aha, engari tukuna ō kōrero, tukua ō whakaaro i roto i te aroha. Pānuihia, whāngaia anō hoki i roto anō i te aroha, engari kia tiakina tō mauri me tō whānau nō reira, i runga i tēnā kua mutu tēnei wāhanga kōrero, kia kaha ki te tuku i ō koutou whakaaro mā runga i te whakaaro ipurangi. Tēnā koutou katoa.
Visual: panellists and Te Arahi
Visual: Stats NZ logo
Onscreen text: www.stats.govt.nz
Stats NZ Tatauranga Aotearoa
[End]
Video, 30:59 min
See video in He taonga te raraunga? Is data taonga? – te Reo Māori panel discussion
Published 6 November 2018
Note: the onscreen text displays while audio of the discussion is happening in te Reo Māori. The text is a summarised English translation of the discussion, not a word-for-word translation.
Visual: Rhonda Paku, Stats NZ Kaihautu, speaking to camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae.
Audio (Rhonda speaking): Rarangi maunga, tū te ao, tū te po. Rarangi tangata, ka mate, ka mate noa. Rarangi raraunga, ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea. Kia ora mai kōtou katoa.
Onscreen text: Rhonda Paku, Stats NZ Kaihautu
Onscreen text (Rhonda speaking): Greetings to you all. We all know that we live in a world of technology and instant access that ties in directly to data. We have brought together a group of speakers to share their thoughts on data and tikanga Māori. So listen in.
Audio (Rhonda speaking): Ko Rhonda Paku ahau, mō Tatauranga Aotearoa
Visual: White background with Stats NZ logo, followed by white background with black, orange and grey wai tohu.
Onscreen text: he taonga te raraunga? is data taonga?
Visual: closeup of Te Arahi Maipi, facing the camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae, with a Stats NZ banner in the background.
Onscreen text: Te Arahi Maipi, Waikato-Tainui
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Greetings to you all, and greetings to the house of knowledge in which we gather as we discuss our topic: Is data a ‘taonga’? I’m Te Arahi Maipi and I welcome you all. Welcome too to you who join us on Stats NZ’s Facebook page. Make sure you follow us and head on to stats.govt.nz too.
Visual: Three panellists in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae, from left to right, Rukuwai Tipene-Allen, Te Aorere Pēwhairangi, Jade Maipi, and Te Arahi. From here on, the visuals record the discussion and focus moves from closeups of individual speakers to shots of the whole panel.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): The topic for our panel is something we deal with a lot in broadcasting. But it exposes the differences between mainstream and Māori culture, it exists in between the two, that is data. Let’s meet our guests. A warm hello to Rukuwai Allen.
Onscreen text: Rukuwai Tipene-Allen, Ngāpuhi, Ngāi Te Rangi
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Thank you, greetings.
Onscreen text: Te Aorere Pēwhairangi, Ngāti Porou
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Te Aorere Pēwhairangi, welcome brother.
Onscreen text: Jade Maipi, Ngāpuhi, Pare Hauraki
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): And my darling, Jade Maipi. Welcome.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Good. All three of you deal with data and the internet on a regular basis. (Visual: panellists and Te Arahi, then closeup of Te Arahi) Tell us how you’re dealing with data on a daily basis?
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): I’m on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Linkedin all the social networking sites every day. And they’re great. They are hubs of activity. And I visit media websites too like the Herald’s and Newshub, to find out what’s trending and share it across my social media pages. So I’m on it a lot, almost 20 of the 24 hours in the day (laughter).
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): How about you Te Aorere?
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): As Rukuwai said, this is what we thrive on. It’s the tool of our time. I’m reminded of Apirana Ngata’s proverb, “Use the tools of the Pākehā to sustain your body”, And that is what we’re doing. Through our utilising these tools, we’ve established kōhanga reo, KKM, wharekura, the very institution we work for, Māori Television; and radio stations. We’re still developing with regards to Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and Facebook. That’s the world we live in today in 2018 and it’s our mode of operation. This is us taking up the “tools of the Pākehā.” But let’s not forget the rest of Apirana’s proverb, “Stay true to the values of your Māori ancestors.” So, we’ve engaged these tools a lot in order to benefit those treasures, as the initiatives and strategies you’ll see are for reo revitalisation.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Jade, I can personally attest to your love for Instagram. But, do you use them for personal entertainment, (Visual: panellists and Te Arahi) or for work as well?
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): I work in media, and it’s a good tool to promote the language far and wide. My mother’s side of the family do not speak te reo, They’re living as virtual migrants in Auckland. So I’m the sole reo speaker representing Māori views on that side of the family (Visual: panellists listening to Jade speaking) and I use te reo on these platforms so that they see and hear te reo, and those that have no reo are exposed to a Māori viewpoint. And thirdly I’m a mother so I have to monitor my children, and make sure they’re safe on social media sites like Facebook. I also work in business so I try to represent Māori opinion on that platform, With some of my colleagues, I’m the first Māori they’ve met, so representing our views, our concepts, is important to me.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): And to our viewers on Facebook, you can have a say too. Leave us your comments and thoughts on today’s discussion. Today’s digital show centres on data and whether it’s a taonga. So join in on Facebook and other social media. So, do you think data is a ‘taonga’?
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Yes it is. Look at our marae pages. My marae is one – they’ve created a page, and you’ll find the minutes from our meetings there, whakapapa charts and historical accounts. Those things are tapu to me (Visual: panellists listening to Rukuwai speaking) as I know that the information is precious. Mountains, lands and whakapapa aside, it’s the knowledge that is our children’s legacy. The page is one strategy my marae has used to ensure that information is made available to the younger generation. So all that information is precious, including the photos of our soldiers who served overseas. They’re no longer with us, but their images are ‘taonga’. The recordings radios have archived are ‘taonga’, where you’ll hear ‘kaikaranga’ and historical accounts, they’re being shared on Facebook, where they’ve a place to live on. But where can we place them so they are set apart from the living? I mean, where is the pātū roimata that says this is a taonga, these are from the past, these are from our dead. And then how do we return from that space? (Visual: panellists listening to Rukuwai) those are my concerns about ‘tapu’ on social media.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): That may be true for us in reality, that anything relating to the dead is kept separate from that of the living. There’s no difficulty there in keeping them separate, but can we blame that on the internet? (Laughing)
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): Yes, I think it’s a major problem. The problem with Facebook is that the youth is open to being influenced by an ignorant few. I’m taken aback to see photographs of gravestones, it really upsets me as I know that those things should be kept to the dead. If you want to post up a photograph of your nanny, grandmother or grandfather, use a photo of them as they lived you wouldn’t hang a photograph of a graveyard in your house, would you? That’s just me. So after a time it becomes acceptable practice, as people have seen it being done by others on Facebook. So I make it my job to teach my children not to do that. That’s my opinion. Those should be kept separate, in order to keep ourselves and our traditions safe.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Te Aorere, your thoughts?
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): We’re discussing ‘tapu’ and ‘noa’, and in my opinion you have to understand the concepts first. There is an English proverb which provides some context on tapu, “Cultures can be made, unmade and remade”. To debate Jade’s point, it’s our cultural belief that ‘tapu’ depends on the context. For instance take a spade. If someone was to ask can a spade be tapu? I would say it depends on what that spade is for. If that spade was for gardening or for digging the hāngi pit that spade is ‘noa’. But if that spade was for digging a grave, where a body is to lie, that spade is tapu. So we have to know our what our practices and the concepts behind ‘tapu’ and ‘noa’. in order to express a correct opinion about them. So therein lies caution. As Jade said, we are sometimes open to being led by the ignorant, who know little about our tikanga. Tamati Kruger says, ‘Our practices are the embodiment of our thoughts and beliefs’. Genealogy and the dead, these are all grave issues.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): But in the day-to-day, what sort of information would you keep personal? Like your image for instance, would you keep that to yourself? And what do you feel is fine to share openly?
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Everytime I post up a photo of myself, I’m sharing my moko on the internet. I have no problems sharing that on Facebook as most of my friends are actual friends and relatives. So that’s fine, they know me well. But to think that someone could capture my moko, and use it for their own purposes, I will not agree. That’s where I have an issue. I know that my face belongs to me, but my moko belongs to my family. So when I share images of it, there is a moment of pause where I worry that something bad could come from it.
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): If you consider Te Aorere’s point about being ‘tapu’ being dependent on context, yours is a good example. If we look at what people share freely on Facebook, you’ll see instances where people are naming themselves, their parents, their grandmother, grandfather, iwi and line of descent, that causes me some concern, as you are giving away your genealogy. I mean, posting up things like, ‘I’m in Bali for a week with my mates,’ is fine, so there are photographs and information that are safe to share on social media. But some things you should keep to yourself.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): That example of ‘whakapapa’, what’s different with sharing it online, and sharing it in a meeting house like this to a room of 100 people? It’s not as if you know every single person in the room so what makes it different?
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): When you hear ‘whakapapa’ being recited in the meeting house, or on the marae, you only hear it. You can’t hear someone else’s whakapapa and use it somewhere else. And even today we’ve seen examples in our families, where relatives are wanting to set up papakāinga on Māori land. There’s a woman in Rotorua who claimed in the Māori land court, ‘This is my land, I have whakapapa’, she used genealogical charts she acquired off the internet, and won shares in that land. It’s due to incidents like this that I don’t agree with sharing your whakapapa online, because ultimately Māori land is the main issue here. If we lose our land, where do we call home, where do we stand tall? So I don’t agree with online sharing of ‘whakapapa’, with making that a piece of internet data..
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Te Aorere, you have strong Māori values. Your perspective is very Māori, most of us aren’t like that. But we’re quick to express our opinions about Māori issues online. If you had any advice to give to those who don’t have that traditional knowledge tell us what things make you uneasy when you see them on the internet.
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): Good question. Actually, that’s a difficult one. Who am I to say to someone, they’re doing that right, they’re doing that wrong. Hence why I say, perhaps more wisdom is required. I’ll reiterate my point about the importance of knowing our customs, so that we keep ourselves safe, that is the very function of tikanga, to keep us safe. Perhaps the greatest tragedy here is that in 2018 we have let our customs rule us because we simply don’t know them well enough. If we knew them well, we would know that they serve our purpose. And that’s how we ensure that we are safe and that we remain authentically Māori in today’s society. And keep our activities true to the knowledge we’ve inherited from our ancestors. Sir Peter Buck said in 1930, “here again the age-old story of a conservative culture incapable of adaptation stands in the way of a practical solution.” This was in a letter Sir Peter Buck wrote to Sir Apirana Ngata. These were the issues they discussed in 1930. It’s been almost 100 years and we’re still talking about the same issues. And furthermore, even then they identified, “Here again the age-old story,” so the issues were time-worn when they discussed it, all those years ago. So I’m saying we need to know our customs, and know our history, as Sir Apirana Ngata, Sir Peter Buck, the generations before us have already talked about, the same issues we’re discussing today. I think by paying heed to what they said, and staying true to our customs, beliefs…Finally, in response to your question and Māori principle will we achieve it. I implore everyone to learn, learn our customs, learn our reo. It’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Rukuwai, when you head off to your next wānanga there are so many wānanga these days, wānanga reo, wānanga on karanga, wānanga on Māori medicine. Is it time a wānanga was held for all Māori? There are approximately 1 million of us living throughout the world. 99 percent of them are online. Is it time Māori discussed a set of online tikanga?
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Yes it’s a necessity in the world we live in. We need to find a space where we can be authentically Māori, in the face of today’s emerging pop culture. So that’s one part of the issue. Te Aorere was right, the discussion has been going on some time. It’s a changing world but it’s not as though we have to sacrifice being Māori, or abandon our worldview in order for us to survive in that world. The question is where are we at now? How can we come together, and let Māori principle guide us on those situations? I think Māori meeting to discuss online tikanga is of high importance. But perhaps we’ve all seen people turning to cyber sources to learn about customs and reo. That is fine. Some of us have busy lives and we’re loaded with work But it can’t beat experiencing the Māori spirit, sitting at the heels of your elders. So there is the internet, but let it not dictate how we do things.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): This issue is not for Māori alone, but for both Māori and Pakeha alike, it’s the collection of data from all your online activities. From everybody including Google, Facebook to the Government and other such agencies. No matter what you do online, no matter the website, the activity is recorded. Do you have any reservations about that? Or are you fine with it?
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): Most times I am, because I’m Māori. That data is used to say we, Māori, are poor, that we are unlawful and unhealthy. So that makes me naturally distrustful of data collection. But that aside, I’ve seen in rongoā practitioner circles, the exhaustive effort being made, to ensure that the Ministry of Health recognises, an alternative health therapy in traditional Māori medicine. So that’s one example of data collection that has merit. Because often times a person’s mental state isn’t taken into consideration, nor their spiritual wellbeing. You won’t find that in the data. Here’s a genuine Māori concept that is evidence of an alternative treatment for our people, but Pākehā say they need to see evidential proof, before they recognise it.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Why did you come to today’s panel? What brought you here?
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): I came to represent our Māori perspectives, and ensure that our language and our opinion is heard, in discussions around ‘tikanga’ and modern technology. As Professor Linda Smith said, when the tidal wave of immigrants arrived to New Zealand, they brought two objects, the pen and the page. She says within 30 years the Māori people were complete literate. A lot of people say, don’t do this and don’t do that. But some of our best scholars, Te Matorohanga, Te Kōro, Mohi Turei journalled the things Māori people of the time said. And those accounts remain as a legacy of knowledge, so that we may gain insight to inform what we do. So I came today because the pen and the page of today, is the iPad you hold in your hand, it’s the camera, it’s the iPhone that I have in mine. These are the pen and page of 2018, and I, Te Aorere Pewhairangi, came to ensure that it is recorded for my children, and all my issue in the next 100, 200, 300 years, and so forth So that the record reflects our account, and the Government hears real Māori views on the issue.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): The last government collected a lot of data and they said it would benefit the economy and law-making. The entire nation as a whole. Do you agree or don’t you agree, And what do you see in that data collection to will benefit us in the work we do?
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Māori have been failing in the statistics for some time. It has been years and I haven’t seen any benefits to following the data in order to meet that, or so that Māori are better performing in that area. How many years have Māori failed, and there’s been no change, we’re still failing. So, if that’s what the Government is after, then they need to pay for the privilege. We’ve seen times they’ve called us poor. Jade is right, they call us poor, moneyless, homeless and under qualified. So how about you compensate us, for filling out your census and for doing this, and doing that. I think we should be paid for that service. Don’t just take the data from my activities, don’t put me into that Māori box. I am here living as Māori, which by your definition says I’m poor, moneyless and whatever else. But yet you haven’t armed me with the tools to succeed. And Jade was right, their health system has only one perspective, they ignore the spiritual and mental wellbeing of a person. So how are Māori meant to get healthy? They need to consider those aspects. And stop lumping all Māori into the poor, moneyless and underqualified box.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Perhaps data could be collected for iwi purposes? (Audio (Jade): “ahhhh, mmmm” while Rukuwai and Te Aorere laugh)
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): I respond that way, because profit is at the bottom of every man’s motivations…
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): …Whether they be Māori or Pākehā.
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): Yes, Māori, Pākehā, iwi or iwi board. The statistics show us failing. For example, if 70% of Ngāpuhi lived in Auckland and 50% of them were sick, then you’ll see that iwi take that data and say to the Ministry of Health, we’ll run workshops and appoint doctors to heal those sick people. But let us lead that. So it’s using data so that an agency can get funding to provide a service to iwi. That’s not a bad idea at first glance, but I wonder if they’re right group to provide that service? Sometimes I look at those people and I wonder if they are the right people to lead that cause.
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): I give it up to you three, when I see something on the internet or if it’s on YouTube it’s the real deal to me. Everything they say is legit. But you’ve all argued against that. But it’s time to end our discussion, and it has been a great discussion indeed. We hope you go and share your own thoughts. I hope you, our viewers, have enjoyed it too. After this show, when you leave this house, will today’s discussion change what you do? What you do online, on Twitter, on any other social media? Today’s discussion has confirmed a few things.
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): I’ll return home soon and debate more, and this will be one of the issues we discuss. What is our code of conduct for online, and this discussion will spark that debate, so that’s what I’ll be doing after this..
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): What was the question?
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): When you leave and you have your iPad in your grasp, will today’s discussion change how you do anything online? Or are you set in your ways?
Onscreen text (Te Aorere speaking): They are pretty set, but tomorrow may be different (laughter from panellists)…that world. Let me quote a saying by Mason Durie, “tikanga is a comment on processes and practices…as much as it is on fixed belief.” My beliefs are pretty fixed now, but should a practical solution appear tomorrow, that could change.
Onscreen text (Rukuwai speaking): Tell me, so I can tell the marae (more laughter).
Onscreen text (Te Arahi speaking): Or leave us a comment on Facebook (laughter).
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): But the world changes and Māori have to adapt. We are not, are not a rigid people. And that’s why Te Aorere’s example of Apirana Ngata is fitting. “Use the tools of the Pākehā to sustain your body,” But remain true to the customs of your people, the Māori people. So, to sum up today’s discussion, I’m still of the same mind, in that I need to keep adapting with this changing world. I need to keep our best customs strong and te reo, in order to safeguard our culture, our children and the future generations.
Onscreen text (Jade speaking): Jade, Te Aorere, Rukuwai, thanks for taking part. And once again I implore you to head on to stats.govt.nz. And check out Stats NZ’s Facebook page. So the main point I’ve taken from today, is to uphold the traditions no matter what, but hand out advice with caution and compassion, and read and share that information in understanding too. Take care of yourselves and your families. On that note we end the show. Make sure you share your thoughts with us on our webpage. Thank you to you all.
Visual: panellists and Te Arahi
Visual: Stats NZ logo
Onscreen text: www.stats.govt.nz Stats NZ Tatauranga Aotearoa
[End]
Video, 27:36 min
See video: He taonga te raraunga? Is data taonga? – English panel discussion, published 13 November 2018.
Visual: Rhonda Paku, Stats NZ Kaihautu, speaking to camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae.
Audio (Rhonda speaking): Rarangi maunga, tū te ao, tū te po. Rarangi tangata, ka mate, ka mate noa. Rarangi ngā raraunga, ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea. Kia ora mai tatou katoa.
Kia ora everybody. As we all know, today is the world of technology, the digital age. But we also know associated with that is information and the data world. Today Stats NZ has brought together some speakers to share their thoughts on tikanga Māori and the data world. Please join us, listen in, share your thoughts as well. I’m Rhonda Paku for Stats NZ.
Visual: Stats NZ logo, followed by the wording ‘he taonga te raraunga? is data taonga?’ overlaid onto rotating waitohu graphic.
Visual: Te Arahi Maipi speaking to camera in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): E ōku huia kaimanawa, tēnā koutou. Rarau mai ki tēnei kaupapa, ki tēnei wananga e arohaehae ana tēnei pakirehuia he taonga te rauranga.
Kia ora everybody, welcome to this Facebook show for Statistics New Zealand. Make sure to check out all the information on stats.govt.nz and also follow us on Facebook at Statistics NZ. I’m Te Arahi Maipi and it’s my job to find out is ‘he taonga te raraunga – is data a taonga?’ So it’s not about me finding out and telling you, it’s about me asking these experts that question.
Visual: Te Arahi sitting to the left in Te Manukanuka a Hoturoa Marae, with Tau Henare, Ngapera Riley, and Karaitiana Taiuru sitting to the right, next to each other. Throughout the video, the visuals move from closeups of individual panellists and Te Arahi, to views of the panellists as a group.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): First of all our expert panel is…Karaitiana Taiuru – tēnā koe.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Tēnā koe.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): We’ve got Ngapera Riley – tēnā koe.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Kia ora.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): And also Tau Henare – tēnā rawa atu koe.
Audio (Tau speaking): Hey bro.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Now these three people are going to be sharing their thoughts on a wide range of issues around data and we want you, also, to share your thoughts in all the comments. But, as we go on, I just want to get a bit of an introduction, Twitter style, not the paepae kōrero, because we’ve only got about 20 minutes also. So first of all, Karaitiana, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you relate to data.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Sure. I’ve got a background in digital and data, and how tikanga Māori can be used with digital and with data, and how that can be used to predict the future of data and technology.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Wow, interesting. Ngapera?
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Kia ora. I’m new to the data world – six months in as deputy CEO of Figure NZ, and we’re trying to take all of New Zealand’s information – public information – and make it free and accessible for people to use.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Ka pai. Tau?
Audio (Tau speaking): Ah, board member of Housing New Zealand – just finished yesterday, board member of Crown Forestry Rentals Trust, and also a member of the Independent Māori Statutory Board. The data world – it’s actually social media is my bag.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): What I want to ask you guys first of all, before we get into the topics, is around your everyday use – just pretend, you know, it’s a normal day – you wake up, you have your coffee or whatever you have in the morning; from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed, what’s a typical use of data or social media, that you do every day?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Sure. I mainly use social media just to promote news items that I think’s of interest and to get views of people in my network, and to see what professional colleagues are up to in their professional lives.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Ka pai.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Yeah, Facebook’s my preferred medium, I use LinkedIn as well on a professional capacity, but I love Facebook because I can connect with family, friends, business and actually doing a lot more business via Facebook and Messenger these days, yeah.
Audio (Tau speaking): Yeah, I’m mainly on Twitter, but I’m across Facebook and LinkedIn. I use it for all sorts of things – so as soon as I get up I check the news, I check the overseas sports results, throughout the day I like to interact with people on various issues – sports, politics – mainly politics during the day, and at night-time again, it’s back to the original – have a look what’s being said – have a look what’s been going on in the world.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Yeah I’m typical – when there’s a Queenslander winning, I’m across everything (Tau speaking: that’s right bro…) but when they’re losing, I’m dead silent (laughter).
Audio (Tau speaking): You’re very quiet – very quiet (laughter).
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Yeah I’ve disappeared off the face of the earth.
Audio (Tau speaking): But that doesn’t happen very often.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): No no no no, it’s been a good 10 years, but I’m pretty quiet this year. But I want to ask you – in regards to the information you share – on your Twitter, on your Facebook…do you see that data as a taonga?
Audio (Tau speaking): Yeah, I’m not a believer that data is a taonga. Data is information and collecting that information is for, you know, how to get from A to B, how to build a house, how to blah blah blah blah, you know, how many apprentices do you need. In terms of taonga, taonga is something that you want to protect and you’re very careful about who you share that with. Now, so what we’re talking about, is a platform and something else – they aren’t the same.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Mmm. I’d have to disagree in the sense that – if I use the analogy of reo – I do believe that data is a taonga, same way as I believe te reo Māori is a taonga. It is something that we have to protect, but if you don’t use it – if you don’t use data and you can’t access it then it’s not as useful – it’s not as powerful as it could be. So yes, I do believe data is a taonga, but you have to understand how to use it – the same way with te reo – you have to understand a lot of context behind it before you can be proficient in it. And if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. And, as we increasingly go into a world that is surrounded in data, I think it’s really important for everyone – particularly for Māori – to understand it and not be afraid of it. Yeah.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Personally I think that data is a taonga so I’m very careful what I do share. I just share common public information which is not private or is not going to hurt my family or myself. Yeah.
Audio (Tau speaking): What a load of rubbish. (laughter).
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Well Tau is rowing his own waka at the moment.
Audio (Tau speaking): Again.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Again, that’s the normal. But personal details, personal pictures...so that’s about yourself. And then it starts getting a little bit wider with whānau kōrero...things like whakapapa. Where does that kinda draw the lines? So Tau’s sitting...and I’ll come to Tau in a second. But in regards to that taonga, the next word that usually comes with that is tapu, so at what point on this type of medium, social media is ‘taonga’ to ‘that’s fine, put that out there, share it with whoever’, to the parts where you start getting a little bit precious, that ‘ah, na na na na, I’m not sharing that with anybody’?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): I think for me, every time you use social media you automatically give away your intellectual property rights for everything you share. So you need to consider that before you put it on social media…I’d never put a photo of my tīpuna on social media. When you consider it goes through the pipes, it goes under people’s wharepakus, through anywhere, through radio waves, you know, going through people eating kai, throughout people’s bodies, I draw the line on things like that. That’s why I do think, yup, that stuff is tapu. I’m a firm believer that if you take a photo or something you’re taking a bit of mauri off the living thing and then you’re putting it into the digital world where that’s...yeah, it’s giving away the property, intellectual property rights and ownership of that data to faceless American corporations and other people, who’ll then manipulate that data, make money off that data, yeah, and you’ve got no control of it anymore.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): I think it’s important to understand the distinctions. There’s a lot of different types of data, right? You ask a young person, the data is what you top your phone up with, you know, that’s ‘the data’. And then there’s personalised data which can identify people, and then there’s public, aggregate data, not personalised data, that’s just information and numbers. For example, how many smokers are there in New Zealand and how many Māori, and you know, demographic data, those kinds of things. With regards to tapu, yeah, that’s a really interesting question...I think it depends what type of data you’re talking about, you know, whether that’s tapu. If it’s whakapapa data, is this data really personalised, where your iwi lives and identifiable, beneficiaries for example. That’s, that really is a bit tapu, that is a taonga and that must be protected and acknowledged. But the aggregate data, I believe, and how to use it, yes it’s a taonga but we’ve got to understand it in order to really use it properly, for good.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): So Tau, you generally say that this data isn’t a taonga, so within that scope are you quite happy and free to share whatever on there, or do you have your boundaries as to what’s good to share?
Audio (Tau speaking): Yeah I do have boundaries, and I suppose the only boundary that I have is putting naked photos up (laughter). And, ok, it sounds funny, but that’s my limit, you know, and so everything below that, as far as I’m concerned, you know like Karaitiana says he doesn’t want to put a photo up of his tīpuna. I’m the sort of person who says ‘ah hell no, I want people to share the knowledge that Wahine Kino is my great great grandmother, you know, and what a beautiful woman she was’. That she still is – in my mind. My view is this – if you think it’s a taonga, if you think it’s tapu, sweet – don’t put it on then, ok? And that’s why I respect what Karaitiana is saying. Me – I don’t class that stuff, you know – I just think that – yeah course, there’s always one person in the world – 7 billion people – there’s always that one rogue, you know, that’s going to use it for nefarious reasons. And the same with corporations – same with all sorts of photos. You know, I mean there are photos of me that don’t belong to me – Getty Images – they own my image. I don’t – I don’t really care. You know, use it for whatever reason they want to…apart from, you know, advertising and they don’t do a kickback to me. You know, this whole thing about – this is what social media was for – was to share, was to put out your views. Whether they are right wing, left wing, middle wing – whoever, whatever, it was about sharing. That was the initial reason for social media.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Does Tau have a point here, that are we too precious? Like, what’s the worst that’s going to happen? Like, are we talking about extreme circumstances that happen somewhere – in Kazakhstan, where somebody got identity theft, or something along those lines…are we a little bit too uptight about what we share and what possibly could happen to it?
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Well again I think it comes down to what type of data that we’re talking about, right? And, you know, if you’ve got, if there’s good intentions behind sharing and teaching and using information for good that’s going to help future decisions, that’s ka pai. If the data’s going to be taken, for example, if somebody wants to get a hold of Māori stats around unemployment, and they want to use that to, you know, make – whakahī our people or whakaiti, then that’s not good – but that’s going to happen, because it’s the nature of open data and having information out there. So that’s why we want to teach people how to use it, and think about the responses. We talk to government agencies and private sector businesses, and, you know, data is hard. It’s hard and it’s changing all the time, so you just have to be ready. And this is why having discussions like this is so important, because it’s for so long, data has been seen as the realm of the geeks, or the mathematicians, or the statisticians, but kohanga reo tamariki can use data – everybody can use data - it’s about breaking down the fear around it and having the kōrero.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): When you, Karaitiana, when you have a look on social media, what’s the number one thing – especially when you see Māori people using on Facebook and Twitter, that you think “oh my gosh, what are you doing, why do you, why do you put yourself through that?”
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Sure. Mainly photos of themselves, and their babies, and their children; photos of the dead – someone mentioned before.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): So you have an issue with photos of them and their kids on there?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Yes , so I know people can exploit people’s – you know, physically exploit young children, when they see photos of them, those images of children – their faces can be put into other images, for illegal things – there’s just no limits what can happen to those images.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Interesting.
Audio (Tau speaking): I went to put a photo of my moko up, and got told off by my daughter and my son-in- law. Not told off, you know, very respectfully, cos I would’ve told them where to go, but that sort of initiated a thing in me to be careful about who I put up. I suppose if you’re in control of it, that’s cool, but once it goes out, you’re not in control – anybody can use it.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Quite. As I say – and if your children grow up, and become quite aware, spiritually aware and tikanga aware, then they’re going to question ‘why did you put my photo all over the internet?’ and ‘why did you, yeah, you know, different aspects of my mauri and wairua get...’
Audio (Tau speaking): But most Māoris don’t believe that. That’s just...that’s just...
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): (interrupting) Oh but look, generally speaking [inaudible] on my timeline is all my kids.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Yeah I love seeing people’s kids on there…yeah.
Audio (Tau speaking): Yeah.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): In saying that, so the majority of people, yep, same type of thing – very very freely about their image, about their information, about dirty laundry and things like that, that might possibly come back to haunt them a little bit later on, but do you feel as though, that we need better tikanga, around, you know, so general guidelines or because at the moment it’s free for all, you know, and depending on who you are and what kind of state you’re in at that time, you know, determines the type of information. Do you think that generally speaking there should be a bit more awareness about what is tikanga, or good practice around that.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Well. My thoughts are that guidance is always a good thing. And actually, people are sharing information because they’re actually just a little bit unaware of that, that they’re sending all their personalised information out to an American faceless corporation. So I think that awareness is important, and it’s ka pai – if you’re fully aware of what you’re doing, and you know that this information is being collected about you, and you’re ka pai with that, that’s good. But I think guidance is always a good thing, and when it comes to tikanga, yes, we should be considering this, because, because everything is so new, we just actually don’t know what the implications are going to be – five, 10 years from now, so I think guidance and awareness is always important.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Are we getting better, or are we getting worse…as the years go on, about the type of information that we share?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): I think we’re getting worse. And we do need to consider, well what is going to happen in the future? I mean we look back at our tīpuna and it was cool to stop speaking Māori to blend in with society, so we did that. We thought it was the right thing to do to give up our gods because that was what society wanted, cause everyone did it. Land, we thought, well yeah, we’ll just, you know, we’ll give it to, you know, the colonisers, cause yep, that will help us, you know, get ahead in life. And now we’re saying yep – we’re going to give our data away, and we’re going to forget about all of our privacy because that’s what everyone else does. And I think we can look back in history and say “here’s a lesson”.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): (to Tau) You’re shaking your head.
Audio (Tau): Oh I think that I might be from the wrong generation, I might be from the wrong side of the track, I might be a lot of things…but what we don’t need is more regulation. It’s we don’t need a group of people telling us what to do. For goodness sake, people are adults…in fact a lot of the people that use social media aren’t adults – you know, our kids. But I just hate rules and regulations I suppose. Ask any…
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): (interrupting) I had no idea. (laughter) I had no idea that was the case.
Audio (Tau speaking): Ask any one of my teachers. Yeah look, I just think that you’ve got to be careful, you’ve got to do all this. I mean, these two here – they’re from a different generation – especially this one (gesturing at Ngapera) – but they both said something that worries me – and that was the – like a mini accusation - that an American corporation is going to use the information. America is not the only country – New Zealand, Australia, England, Africa – is a continent. You know, so let’s not get bogged down in this fear that America is going to do something to us. I mean at the end of the day, this is the world of 7 billion people is getting smaller, and smaller, and smaller, as each day passes, and what we’re talking about is the use of technology to better ourselves and our children and the world. So I think that, look, I agree with some of the stuff that they’re talking about, and it is about growing, but again, I rail against too many rules and regulations.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): Ok, from a consumer standpoint, so a lot of the things that I go on social media for is to share family, you know, catch up with people and things like that, around business contacts with LinkedIn, but a lot of it that I actually appreciate, is that when Facebook sees my activity, and then they start chucking up ads into things that I’d be interested in that I never knew was even there, so that’s a positive thing for me because I’m on there to…I’m looking for stuff, and I’m wanting to be interesting, or to buy things…what’s the worst-case scenario? So from your two perspectives when you’re saying you’re being protective of certain things that you put out there.
What do you think would be the worst thing that could happen when you’re thinking ‘I’m not going to do that because this might happen’.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): I guess for me it’s going to be artificial intelligence which is very very close to becoming a big reality and then that artificial intelligence profiling me, profiling my friends, profiling my family and deciding ‘oh well, I’m statistically likely to be a criminal because some of my friends are criminals or I’m statistically likely to die of cancer because of my family. So them being targeted by medical companies or targeted by law enforcement, by government, I think it’s all…it’s a reality at the moment.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Mmm I guess well it’s not perfect yet. I got sent an ad for an old people’s home the other day (laughter). I don’t mind that kind of …see it as a part, you know, I think that’s actually one of the cool things about it, is having personalised. But what I do worry about then is not seeing an open view of the world. If you’re only getting one source of information and one side of the story. You know, just left or right or whatever that you’re just feeding, you’re feeding one side because that’s what it’s feeding you. Whereas actually in order to be knowledgeable and seek wisdom you gotta have all angles. And so if it’s only feeding you one, one lot of information that it thinks that you want to know, it’s then, yeah that’s a little bit of that area.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): It reminds me a bit of the early days back in Hotmail when I kept on getting sent messages about Viagra. Yeah, na, I’ve got enough kids thanks… (laughter). Interesting the two contrasting views. But what about government information, government data. Do you see that as a taonga?
Audio (Tau speaking): Na, no I don’t. I actually think it’s an essential that governments have not only data but the use of data and the free availability of that data not only for government but also for the public. Because that’s how we should make policy based on, it should be evidence-based. How many houses do we need, how much money do we have to spend on welfare, all those sorts of issues. Transport. So, and that should be a two-way thing, it shouldn’t be protected by government and for only government, it should be for the community, for iwi, for whānau, for hapū, to use as they see fit as well. So that’s our open data.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Oh I do see it as a taonga. Again. I think it’s very important. Well it is a taonga in one way in that there are certain elements of it that do need to be protected, and that’s why we have the IDI and things like that. Yes, Tau is absolutely right, we do need to be making decisions based on information, but the thing with data is that it’s not perfect. You have to understand the gaps in it, you have to understand the context in which it was gathered. So for Māori in particular, who, many of who have a mistrust of government over time, you know, yes, we do need good data for Māori but we need to get better at the way we collect it and the type of questions that we’re asking, and you know, there’s awesome groups Te Mana Raraunga, the Māori Data Sovereignty Network, and a whole lot of experts that are constantly having this discussion. And I do think it’s important, but I’m a huge proponent of open data. And yes, we have to make sure that our people are using it because data holds our stories, important stories of our country that we can use to make decisions, and funding, and all of those things. But there are certain elements of it that really do need to be protected and it’s something that we all should interested in.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): That’s interesting. OK for the first time through this I see three heads nodding.
That’s the first time. Do you agree?
Audio (Tau speaking): I was going to sleep (laughter).
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Yeah I think that any government data is a taonga. I also reckon, I also believe it needs to be labelled as a taonga so it gets Treaty recognition. Because there is some data that needs to be shared with iwi. There is some data that needs special, to be treated specifically in a specific way, yeah, with the care and recognition. And then I hear open data, but I always hear people talk about open data but they put open data inside a commercial database program, so I think we need to look at the back end as well, and say is that open source. If it’s not open source, let’s yeah, let’s make it.
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): On the back end of that, so that’s about sharing that data on a government basis, but what about the process of collecting it and holding it.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Mhmm
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): I’m really interested to get your views on this, cos you’re, in the real physical sense, you have some strong opinions on that. How do you see that?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): I don’t like the idea that our data or our taonga is being put inside a database where we have to pay money to leave it in there and we have to pay money to look at it. And then that data gets encrypted and spun around in all different ways which can only be read in that commercial package. I want the data to be in open software where the data is available to anyone without cost. Of course you have to pay for your normal services but the actual software itself should be open.
Audio (Tau speaking): Yeah I mean I agree with my colleagues here that you do have to watch what is available and how you can store stuff in a central database but how you can also access that stuff. I’m a great fan of trying to go back and look at all the old news clippings, from the turn of the century. And it’s becoming harder and harder to access that information unless you’ve got a credit card. You know, it’s just those sorts of issues that will be ironed out, and hopefully with the help of people that are trying to make it accessible to everybody, for their own use, but yeah, I’m generally…I’m agnostic about a lot of data, how it’s collected. I mean as long as it’s not collected by the cops and the SIS and that for racial profiling issues and things like that. I mean I already know that Māori are sick, poor, dumb, unemployed, you know. You know, so we should be throwing money at those sorts of things and I personally get sick and tired of the statisticians and the researchers asking over and over and over the same questions. You know, and so we have a report in the 1970s that basically says the same things as a report said in 2014. About Māori. You know? There are too many people out there and organisations using Māori data just for a piece of coin.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Yeah, that’s a big issue. And it’s yeah, ppffff (laughter)…
Audio (Tau speaking): Go on, say you agree with me!
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Yeah I do agree with you. I do agree but there’s a big problem in that our country’s datasets are in a big mess at the moment and actually the majority of the data that we see collected is actually not collected for what we need it for.
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Mmmm.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): It’s actually…most of it’s collected as a byproduct of a service. You register your dog, you register your car, you enrol in a course, you go to school. All of these information sets are collected, but not…there’s probably the census and a few others that are actually designed to get information. But even then I feel there’s a lot of important information around technologies and things like that that are missing from those datasets. So this is why it’s important to keep asking the questions, and for our country to keep being curious. Yeah.
Audio (Te Arahi, speaking to camera): We’ve run out of time to ask questions for you guys but it is never running out of time for you online. Make sure to share all your opinions, we’d love to view them, we’d love to see them and we’d love to discuss them on Facebook as well. (Speaking to panel) But just to sum everything up. We started with a Twitter version of who you are, what you’re about. I just want a Twitter closing in regards to what you’ve learned and what you might be possibly changing now after this discussion on your online use – or nothing at all. Or is it exactly the same?
Audio (Karaitiana speaking): Yeah my opinion is still the same. Data is a taonga and needs to be treated with, as tapu.
Audio (Ngapera speaking): Yeah my opinions are a little bit the same, but yeah, just keep learning. I want people to keep asking questions about it and pushing the boundaries of it. Because yeah it’s an exciting journey, we should all be on it.
Audio (Tau speaking): Hashtag no change (laughter).
Audio (Te Arahi speaking): We’ll do that, we’ll pass that all over Twitter straight after this. Engari tēnā rawa atu koutou tokotoru kua whai wahi mai ki te whakarangatira i tēnei kaupapa. Karaitiana, Ngapera, Tau, tēnā rawa atu koutou katoa. (Speaking to camera) O tera tēnā koutou i whai wahi mai ki te mātaki i tēnēi hotaka. Thank you very much for everybody joining in and once again, make sure to share and express your views about this because it is an important subject and will be getting more and more important as we grow as a people. And for right now, make sure to follow Stats NZ on Facebook and also stats.govt.nz for any information about data and about anything you want to know about this kaupapa. No reira, mo tēnei wa, tēnā mihi atu, tēnā koutou katoa.
Taiki e.
Audio (Panel speaking): Kia ora.
[End]
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